When we look on Lead investors for Webflow( Y Combinator Continuity), Bonsai( Y Combinator Continuity), Zapier( Y Combinator Continuity) , Stripe( Y Combinator Continuity) etc. etc. whole thing start making sense. It is just a business to make as much profit as Y Combinator Continuity can. The question is whose decision was it to make this shift and how/if seamlessly will be integrated Bonsai to WF
m2c
thats fair point, so we can expect in future see WF dropping e-commerce as it is exactly same scenario means creating whole e-commerce app on side that is way more complex than billing.
Having been burned by Flash, then Muse/Business Catalyst, I was hoping not to get surprises like this from Webflow.
I find the rationale of focusing resources to be weak. This is an existing, working feature, that really didn’t need feature set expansion, and for those that wanted more features they could have always already chosen Bonsai or one of the many others.
Just how many millions does Webflow need to build software, that they couldn’t afford to just keep this going as is?
Most of us designers are already using project management software run our businesses, so the Bonsai promotion is meaningless unless we happen to be ready to switch, which is unlikely because project management software customers are very sticky. No one wants to have to set things up all over again.
Webflow has been great but i am not impressed with this decision, its a massive blow to many designers who have created great work flows which depend on the current client billing.
Hopefully the Webflow team turn back on this change. The community don’t want it!
Definitely not. I understand how that conclusion can be made, but it’s not the case.
Bonsai was recommended by Webflow customers and the decision to partner with Bonsai, compared to similar companies that were recommended, was made based on the features and discount with the goal to make the transition as best as it can be for you and your clients.
Matthew, I think if it was just a cost in the time to switch it wouldn’t be as big a deal. However, this change is creating the need for another monthly/annual subscription and passing costs onto the consumer/client.
It might be helpful to hear more concretely how this is going to ‘advance Webflow in being a best-in-class tool’. These are just vague statements that don’t really mean much in the face of increasing costs. As you can see, the Webflow community (at least a portion of it) isn’t seeing how this change benefits them as a Webflow user. I think further explanation would be helpful.
This is a big mistake Webflow. As a big fan who has used you for many years it pains me to say it. You dont seem to get what our clients require (im a one man band designer with a handful of clients). Work on forms and making the cms experience as good as it can be. Make webflow a simple fluid one stop shop for OUR clients. Equally so, I cant make head nor tail of this new collaboration pricing - I feel like i am having the wool pulled over my eyes. Have you outsourced your marketing department?
I just have to say, this video is comical. Nelson is using a Pro Display XDR ($5000+) while telling us that Webflow must remove a feature us freelancers love after raising $125 Million dollars because they don’t have the resources? I think it’s quite obvious where your allegiance lies and it is for sure not building more features for us freelancers / agencies. I wonder if Webflow actually understands who their audience is. We haven’t seen CMS features that we’ve been requesting for years on the wish list. Let’s just call a spade a spade. Even Nelson can barely keep it together as he explains it, because it is such a hard pill to swallow. If ya’ll really did research the way you guys claim you did you’d know this feature is something all of us use and have been using for years. Why do you think there is so much blow back? I guess you didn’t ask the actual users who use this feature… right?
hi @matthewpmunger I don’t mind what service will be used by WF when new service will be seamlessly integrated or WF offer some hook to be able integrate into WF easily.
The conclusion I have wrote I didn’t meant wrong way but it is how I see it and it make sense to me as it is common business model and there is nothing wrong about that, it is just making money machine. When you saying that is not true and Y Combinator Continuity as lead investor is not involved in executive decisions I will take it as honest true.
OFF TOPIC:
With last few months I’m getting more and more confused what is actually WF main goal and WF main targeted group. At Finsweet say to stay and wait and thanks to them is WF useful tool. in meantime Instead improvements and progressions WF is shifting to something else.
If this is true developers should be familiar with WF goals to be able make decisions. If WF will turn back to pure design tool and will be on top of all new CSS HTML features supported by major browsers and offering useful hooks to be able use WF design on any framework I will be happy with that. But Like I have said WF doesn’t make clear what way are going and if WF will be future proof. IMO making this happened WF needs to write WF 2.0 from scratch.
Anyway I hope that I do not get another BAN for my comments.
The Bonsai discussion is redirection away from the central issue that we are supposed to blindly accept: that maintaining an existing feature was so dire to future development. I think it’s safe to say most Webflow users are already paying for something else besides Bonsai for managing and invoicing projects at the same time that they employ Webflow client billing. Hello Quickbooks, ProWorkflow, Freshbooks and so many others. Webflow management has to know this, so leading with the Bonsai promotion as their gift in the press release is difficult to understand.
I just paid for a whole year of Webflow Pro and SO MUCH of that decision was based around Client Billing. This is SUCH a slap to the face.
Bonsai’s systems are overpriced and not very well designed. I use it because I have to, as the other options to get those features would cost me way more, but it’s NOT well designed from an experience point of view, and it means that literally every billing practice tied to a website I manage now will take twice as many actions and twice as much time. Not to mention this decision makes zero sense. The tool is already built. What “resources” are you saving by discontinuing an already built feature that doesn’t need further development?
What a joke.
First the MASSIVE pricing increase and confusion, now ditching resources that I actively depend on, this is so much poor decision making and really disappointing from a company I’ve historically loved and supported so much.
edit: Coming back to add that to further the slap in the face, I can’t even get the discount on Bonsai because I already pay for the software. I’m getting off the internet for the night.
I just want to chime in here what an awful, customer-last decision this is. I really thought after the last announcement there was no way I could that upset with Webflow again so soon, but here we are.
I would much prefer Webflow keeps client billing as is with no future updates over getting rid of it. The people giving you the feedback to make this seemingly unpopular decision have the option to use Bonsai if they desire. Please, Please reconsider removing this crucial feature. It is so messy to cover our clients’ hosting costs and get reimbursed when client billing allows us to simply pass the bill to clients directly. For me, we are talking about thousands of dollars every year that I am now going to be responsible for.
That’s the nature of a partnership. The deal is specifically for Bonsai, but there are many other options available to freelancers. I was Freshbooks customer before using Client Billing for recurring charges.
This is Cameron from the Bonsai team. If you don’t mind, please send us a quick email to support@hellobonsai.com from the email linked to your Bonsai account on this front!
This. Literally this. Just leave it in place as is and put an asterisk next to it that this product is no longer being developed or improved upon. How did no one at a company that just received $125 MILLLION in funding think of this.
In my opinion this decision is not in the best interest of the customer. It feels like a big loss in trust as a professional user of webflow who is running its freelance business in Germany. For me the strength of webflow used to be not only the great designer but the way everything is integrated into one platform. A tool from designers for designers. With this decision this becomes less and less true for me. I loved having an experience where I don’t need a lot of external services and plugins like I used to with WordPress. In my opinion Webflow is more and more shifting away from providing a holistic experience for the customer. I feel deeply disappointed with the decision. I agree to others in the chat - it feels like a pure financial decision, that benefits Webflow, not the customer. I am questioning if Webflow is still the tool for me to move forward. Using Bonsai does not feel right to me. I already use too many extra services linked to webflow to create my websites and run my business (Zapier, Weglot, Vectary). I don’t need the extra functionalities that Bonsai provides. Client Billing worked perfectly for me and it gave my clients transparency. I am also disappointed in the way they communicated the shift. It felt like they are leaving me alone with contacting all my clients and changing their billing. Webflow lost a lot of trust in my opinion and I am scared that they will remove other important capabilities that will further complicate my business. I don’t see why Webflow cannot afford to continue client billing while raising millions. It seems like they are cutting corners on the wrong end here. I strongly hope they will reverse the decision!
They must do if they really want to be the best tool for designers out there.
It’s exactly like that. If they host sites, they have to bill for, we have not to do their job. Bonsai is a real mess to set up, costly and I am afraid that will not last. Instead of this, in order to have an all-one solution, they had to implement more features, like URL registration and email plans. Another annoying problem is that in Europe if we bill directly to customers, we have to add VAT to the Invoice. Will be hard do explain to some customers that they have to pay more than 210 € for an hosting that with normal providers costs 65/70, VAT, email and URL registration included.
